Two Cranky Guys on ‘Moneyball’: Is It Worth the Hype?
Bruce Fretts: Brad Pitt knocked it out of the park with critics and audiences this weekend as the Oscar-heavy-hitter Moneyball opened to raves and the biggest first weekend in history for a baseball movie. The question is, Bret: Does this movie deserve to be such a hit?
Bret Watson: I’d say it’s a stand-up double, not a home run.
Bruce Fretts: Really? I thought it was a grand slam. OK, I’ll try to restrain myself from making any more baseball puns. Where do you think it came up short… stop? (No, seriously, stop me!)
Bret: Based on the eponymous Michael Lewis best-seller, Moneyball dramatizes the true story of how Billy Beane, as general manager of the hapless Oakland A’s, (supposedly) revolutionized the game by using statistics to find undervalued players. Sounds like a premise for great drama, doesn’t it? It takes some sleight of hand to turn that into satisfying drama. Oh, and Pitt is fine in a fairly one-note performance. He stews and glowers a lot.
Bruce: The unlikely premise is what I loved about it: It’s the anti-baseball movie. Not that it’s anti-baseball, but it flies in the face of romantic baseball movies like Field of Dreams, Pride of the Yankees and Bull Durham. Yet as Beane says, “It’s hard not to be romantic about baseball,” and you get caught up in the A’s ’02 season.
Bret: It gets romantic about an unromantic way of looking at the game. Not that I disagree with it: Before Beane ever met Oakland, I loved Bill James’ books of sabermetric baseball analysis. The movie name-checks him in passing.
Bruce: I’ve never been a bean-counter when it comes to baseball—I’m attracted to all the intangibles about the game that are beloved by the old-timers who resist Beane’s ways. Yet I couldn’t help rooting for Pitt and Jonah Hill, who’s terrifically deadpan as the Yale economics geek who becomes his one ally in the clubhouse.
Bret: Jonah Hill turns in the best performance I’ve seen from him.
Bruce: I’ve finally forgiven him for Cyrus. Were you not a Hill fan before this? I thought he was great in Superbad, but his appeal was wearing thin for me way before he did after filming Moneyball. I guess spending a couple of months staring at Brad Pitt is great motivation to lose weight.
Bret: This movie is the perfect baseball movie for our times: It’s about impoverished underdogs who try find a way to overcome the unfair advantage of rich teams in big markets. Beane compares himself to card counters in a casino, but the problem is that in the long run, the house always wins. The rich get richer. Certainly the Yankees do. Compare how often teams in wealthy markets get into the playoffs vs. teams in smaller markets, and you’ll realize baseball is almost as rigged as Wall Street.
Bruce: Yet it still manages to have a happy ending, of sorts, because of Pitt’s relationship with his teenage daughter, wonderfully played by Kerris Dorsey. As for Pitt, I think it’s his best performance, even better than in Tree of Life. It won’t win him an Oscar—there’s not enough emotional range to the character—but he’s not coasting on his looks, like he did in Oceans 11-13, or fighting against them, as he did in 12 Monkeys. And he’s not cartoonish like he was in Inglourious Basterds. He manages to combine movie-star glamour with a regular-guy appeal.
Bret: The subplot with his daughter is the weakest part of the movie, but it’s necessary for the movie to somehow pull a happy ending out of the fact that the A’s don’t go to the World Series.
Bruce: Oh, you just hate children.
Bret: Not if they’re cooked right. So there’s a weak subplot with frequent flashbacks to his past, as if he carries this long shadow of failure because his own baseball career didn’t pan out. Photos of Beane as a kid in his uniform are hammered into our eyes. But it all sets up what actually is a wonderful scene at the end, when Hill shows Pitt a video of a ballplayer who thinks he’s a loser while oblivious to his triumph. Metaphor alert! Beane, you aren’t a loser as long as you don’t think of yourself as one!
Bruce: I found the script to be nearly flawless. I thought Aaron Sorkin couldn’t take a less likely cinematic subject than Facebook and turn it into great drama, but he pulled it off—with help from Steven Zaillian, who also wrote a little movie called Schindler’s List. That’s an All-Star screenwriting team.
Bret: Mind you, I enjoyed the movie, but beneath its snazzy veneer of a gee-whiz new approach to the game is an old-fashioned hooray-for-the-underdogs movie. Its bones are made of hoary sports movie clichés. And maybe that’s fine, since it’s well done—although if I ever watch it again, I am going to fast-forward through the daughter’s singing scenes.
Hoffman and Howe: Separated at girth
Bruce: I guess I’m just a bigger fan of old hoars than you are. I was impressed by how director Bennett Miller took such a specific subject and made it feel universal. That was where I felt he tripped up with his first film, Capote—Phillip Seymour Hoffman was great in it, but the movie felt tiny. PSH is also good in Moneyball as manager Art Howe, even though it was a little hard to believe any ex-Major Leaguer could ever let himself get that out of shape.
Bret: You’ve never seen a paunchy baseball manager? Tommy LaSorda, anyone?
Bruce: Yeah, but Art Howe stayed lean after he retired, even when he managed the Mets. And if there’s ever an excuse for stress eating, it’s managing the Mets.
Bret: The movie makes a big deal out of Beane’s conflict with Howe, then all of a sudden it vanishes. I suppose Howe got religion about playing people based on their on base percentage and not “intangibles.”
Bruce: Actually, Howe got fired, even though he won 103 games that season. The movie does skim over that fact—which, by the way, came from my 15-year-old son, Jed, a baseball-stats freak who liked the movie just as much as I did. By the way, did you like Capote better than Moneyball?
Bret: Since I saw both Truman Capote movies that came out at the same time, I can’t keep them straight…so to speak.
Bruce: Well, you must not have been very impressed then. I was surprised when it got nominated for Best Picture and Director, but I won’t be when Moneyball earns the same honors. I take it you won’t be cheering if it wins, though.
Bret: It’s a perfectly fine movie, it’s just not baseball’s Citizen Kane. Call it Citizen K?
Bruce: Just not Citizen K-Rod. Another heartbreaker for Mets fans.
Bret: So would you make this the best movie of 2011 so far? It has been a terrible year for movies, so the competition is weak.
Bruce: Yes, I’d say this is the best I’ve seen so far, but the fall Oscar season is just beginning. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if Moneyball becomes the first baseball movie to win Best Picture. It’s about time the national pastime starts catching up to boxing in that category.
Bret: I’m cranky in part because this movie reminds me of why I soured on baseball. Whatever benefits Beane’s stat-counting once brought the A’s is now diluted by the fact that everyone knows about and plays the stats game now.
Bruce: I thought you soured on baseball after your break-up with A-Rod. Let it go.
Bret: Forget A-Rod—I need to focus on breaking up with Pretzel Rods.
Did Moneyball score with you? C’mon—step up to the plate! (Yes, Bruce wrote this—Bret hates baseball puns almost as much as he hates children.)
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Trackbacks & Pingbacks
- Blog Comments! « Sideline Chatter
- Film Bits: Is Moneyball Worth The Money? « The Cineaste's Lament.
- Did ‘What’s Your Number?’ Score With Two Cranky Guys? « Two Cranky Guys
- Two Cranky Guys Debate: Does George Clooney’s ‘Ides’ Have It? « Two Cranky Guys
- ‘Tower Heist’ and ‘Margin Call’: Good Investments or Rip-offs? « Two Cranky Guys
- ‘Young Adult’ and ‘The Sitter’: Arrested Developments « Fretts on Film
- Can “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo” Slay a Stieg Larsson Virgin? « Fretts on Film
- This One Goes Up to 11: 2011′s Best Movies « Fretts on Film
- My Fearless Oscar Predictions 2012! « Fretts on Film
- “Knuckleball!”: The “Moneyball” of Documentaries « Fretts on Film
The only other review I’ve heard was from the neighbors, and they agreed with Bret. I look forward to seeing it.
You need to move to a new neighborhood! Kidding—let us know what you think after you see it. —Bruce
I enjoy how you guys play off each other!
Also WOOO FRESH PRESSED! Congrats!
Thanks! It’s been a long time since anyone called me “fresh”—aside from Internet dates, that is. —Bruce
I have to admit, Brad Pitt looks amazingly ‘regular guy’ in this movie but I want to see Jonah Hill who has grown on my over the years.
This is a great review!
Thanks, EllieAnn! Hope you come back and visit us again for more Crankiness. —Bruce
Great review! Thank you guys!
No, thank YOU! —Bruce
No, thank ME. —Bret
Since a lot of movies now-a-days fall into the not too entertaining category its great to read reviewers that are.
It was nice to see a good movie for a change! —Bruce
Great review!
I enjoy your content. Keep it up.
As long as Hollywood keeps making crappy movies (and the occasional good one, like “Moneyball”), we’ll keep Cranking up our reviews. Thanks! —Bruce
yea i agree Brusce hollywood sucks!
Was the Chad Bradford story given any prominence? It was such an interesting and powerful portion of the book, but I realize books are not movies and so on. I’m gonna see it, maybe next week, tho. Good review.
Chad Bradford’s storyline is brought up but kind of gets dropped. There isn’t time to focus on too many players, aside from Scott Hatteberg, David Justice and Jeremy Giambi. —Bruce
Wonderful review! I wasn’t going to see this one, but you guys have me interested.
Glad to point people in the direction of a worthwhile movie, for once. —Bruce
Love the review! You’ve got a great tone with that whole back and forth, and who isn’t happy about some puns and child cannibalism?
http://thenickelscreen.com
I love puns, and Bret loves child cannibalism. Different strokes… —Bruce
Can’t I love puns AND cannibalism? For instance: I like my tater tots made with actual tots. —Bret
I feel the same way about this movie really brad to me at least has lost it since he got with angelina.
come check mine out I can take the criticism LOL
http://pointsofviewrs.wordpress.com
love ya’lls style – still very excited about this movie
-grace
Thanks! Hope you’re still excited after you see it! —Bruce
“Where do you think it came up short… stop?” ~ Hahaha!!! I actually laughed out loud at that one!
Thanks for your insight into the film and congrats on being Freshly Pressed!
Thanks! Good to know I’m not the only one who laughs at my jokes. —Bruce
PCC Advantage, you’re creating a monster. Don’t encourage him! —Bret
I love the approach to your reviews! You did a fantastic job with layout, dialogue, and the whole bit! You should check out my film review blog, though it takes a single man approach.
Thanks—will do! —Bruce
000
I have to disagree: More like 010.
Binarily yours,
Bret
I actually can’t wait to see this film, I’m kind of getting tired of things blowing up!
http://visusunoorca.wordpress.com
Us, too! —Bruce
Home run.
Being from Oakland, California the first thing that caught my attention about the movie when I was watching it, was how much of the actual film was shot in Oakland and The Bay Area. That part I REALLY enjoyed; made it more authentic esp. to viewers like me who could tell the difference. Overall I LOVED the movie, but I thought they should have gotten a different actor to play Art Howe, and I could have did without the scene with his ex-wife and her awkward new husband or boyfriend. Other than that (even though I am just a bit biased lol) I thought it was great!
-I enjoyed both of your perspectives on the film as well.
Haha. I can imagine this review being better than the movie. At least the book was really good.
nice article ^_^
Nice review!
Well,
Moneyball worked for a while. Just imagine if Beane actually HAD money to retain those good players he drafted. That’s on management, not Beane…
http://www.theklowntimes.net
Personally, I loved Moneyball and consider it one of the best movies I’ve seen in awhile. I’m starting to get tired this era in which films rely so heavily on popular celebrities and special-effects. I’m tired of plot-driven movies that are in no way, shape, or form a reflection of real life and are only created for the purpose of making millions of dollars. Therefore, I’m happy that Moneyball is doing so well in the box office and among critics. In my opinion, it’s real art that is full of meaning, emotion, and truth. I’m not even an A’s fan, in fact I really dislike the A’s, but I wanted Beane to succeed because I could relate to him. I could relate to someone who was an underdog, someone who wanted to make a change, someone who had a passion and dreamed to live that passion out. Moneyball goes beyond baseball, which is why it was such a great work of art.
I appreciate both of your perspectives and hope to read more reviews in the future.
Great review! Really liked it. Congrats on being Freshly Pressed!
thanks for the thoughts! regardless of any review, anything with brad pitt, or jonah hill, or philip seymour hoffman is worth trying out…and the three of them together suggests a trifecta. so i’m in. hopefully worth the money
http://www.icouldntmakethisshitup.wordpress.com
Love the format
Two Cranky guys, that could be anybody
will be back for more
The trailer is good, and the book is fantastic. I’ll take your word on the movie.
Who cares about baseball? I don’t. I just like looking at Brad Pitt.
I understand baseball is number one sport of Americans. It is not popular in my country.
Yeah, who cares about baseball. It is Brad Pit so it must be good watch. I was like him [in Devil's Advocate] when I was young. I also sort of acted like him [in Troy] once. It is Brad Pit. Who knows what this time.
I think the US is more into football, but there’s something about baseball…it can be exciting for sure, but it’s kind of the relaxing, background soundtrack of summer.
No time for book or trailer, I’ll get it straight from the video.
Nice. I would like to actually make a chart of wealthy or large market teams playoff appearances vs. teams like the Pirates and Royals. It would also be a fun list to compare against the NFL…shoot, I’m opening Apple Numbers right now.
I’d like to see that chart. Baseball needs to adopt revenue sharing. —Bret
ghhh
I couldn’t have put it better. —Bret
You can’t be serious: a sports movie without a Hollywood ending? Well, wonders never cease.
Ronnie
How about the fact that Lion King kicked its butt? Explanation? And I’m not excited about learning how statistics changed baseball player acquisition. But I may give it a chance.
I bet Hollywood is looking at the Lion King results and rummaging its inventory. Look forward to GONE WITH THE WIND 3D! Personally, I’m hoping for a 3D version of My Dinner with Andre.
—Bret
I went to see this yesterday and thought it was pretty good, but thought it could have been edited. It was way too long.
What, you didn’t enjoy repeated scenes of Brad Pitt driving around in his truck, looking, um, thoughtful? Me neither. —Bret
I liked it a lot. Here’s my wordpress blog review: http://writerdavid.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/take-me-out-to-the-numbers-game-moneyball/
Most people would think it is suppose to be a comedy seeing jonah hill involved in the movie. But the whole story is based on a revolutionary tactic for not just baseball but all sports. Having to statiscally choose a team with a small budget and making a run for the championship, if possible, would make any manager give it a try. I loved the movie. Inspirational and compelling.
Jmorehouse12, I’m with you: Generally speaking I’m a sucker for any tale about people using their brains to gain unusual insight and advantage. That’s Michael Lewis’ stock in trade—he specializes in writing about people who discover underappreciated assets, and that includes his book that became the movie The Blind Side. I’m looking forward to reading The Big Short. I doubt that one can be turned into a movie… —Bret
If you’re going to see it because you love watching the game of baseball you’ll be disappointed. But if you want a movie that has universally applicable components of how you should live life then it’s a MUST see! I LOVED this movie – will for sure be one I own and watch over and over.
I’ve been interested in this film as I am a huge baseball fan, but I wondered if it would be worth the cost. Thanks for the balanced review. I think I might invest a date night in this one now!
I gotta say I wasn’t impressed with the trailer. These Days anything with Brad will sell. Anyone see “The tree of Life”? Everyone seems to love it here in th US, I’m glad it was booed at Cannes. I’m not the only one who thought it a miss.
Not only did the Cranky Guys sit through Tree of Life, we reviewed it:
http://twocrankyguys.com/2011/06/04/two-cranky-guys-chop-down-the-tree-of-life/
As you can guess from the title, Two Cranky Guys Chop Down the Tree of Life, we didn’t love it. But I agree with Bruce that Pitt is excellent in that movie—better than in Moneyball.
—Bret
Not really excited about this movie. Brad’s kids might help him pick roles since he’s been in a few crappy films the last few years. Stick to parenting.
http://www.twalker123.wordpress.com
The movie was a bit slow. I saw it this past weekend. Pitt–Academy Award nom? What do you think?
I’ve read a little over half the book before I went and saw it. I think Sorkin did a FANTASTIC job, adapting a book that read as something never intended to be a movie . . . and made a fine screenplay. I agree with Bret that it seemed like they were almost pushing the whole subplot with his daughter to widen the emotional range, but overall, I thought it was a great movie. It’s different. Although it contains some sports movie cliches, it does them in a different way, which is why I think it’s good and has potential to do something, at least at the Golden Globes this year. There’s a lot of great things you guys mentioned, such as the romantic side of the unromantic part of baseball and the video metaphor that Hill shows Pitt. This movie has a lot of good stuff. Thanks for the entertaining review!
Oh man, I really disagree. I thought it was sort of boring, and didn’t have a very meaningful message. Plus, I think people who are really into sports would have trouble with both the concept and the way they showed the season playing out– if on-base percentage really were the end-all be-all Wade Boggs was the best player in history. And the story conveniently forgot to mention that the A’s had a pitching rotation of Barry Zito (Cy Young winner that year), Mark Mulder, and Tim Hudson–called the ‘Big 3,’ and probably the best or second-best rotation in the Major Leagues.
The way they paced the story was fine, but none of it came together for me. It’s just not that dramatic that baseball front offices started using saber metrics.
Loved your dialogue about the film!! I just saw it last night and loved it…but I’m biased because I love, love, love baseball. My favorite team happens to be another small-market team, the Twins, who know all too well the heart-break that the Yankees & their big payroll serve up!
While I agree that the daughter bit isn’t the greatest…it does help rationalize his decision in the end. And I love the message that “…you’re a loser…just enjoy the show!” Words I have to remind myself of after my Twins terrible season this year!
You had me at “flies in the face of romantic baseball movies.”
good review, I enjoyed the thoughts, now I’ve just gotta go see it for myself
You said “sports cliches”, i thought to myself that i’m not gona see it then. But then you said it was done well, soooo, i think that it’s now worth seeing. funny how 1 sentence does that to you huh?
Thanks for the review. I’m dying to see this movie as I’m a huge fan of anything Aaron Sorkin writes. To me, his words can make any movie seem nearly flawless.
Leah, I agree, and I should have tipped my hat to Sorkin in my part of the review. His work is almost unfailingly interesting and intelligent. —Bret
I am enjoying the book but I still have plans to see the movie…
This is a great review. Not going to lie, I had a hard time grasping what the movie was about just from the previews. I mean, I got the big picture, new way of looking at baseball, using computers to scout, blah blah, but like always, the previews were missing a big back or substory. Thanks for the help guys! I’ll go see it soon!
I thought that it was good, and I’m glad they didn’t force a romance together between two characters just for appeal, that always annoys me. I just saw it at the movie theater and was stuck with two old ladies in front basically screaming to each other, “Is this the game where there’s an earthquake?? Oh, he’s such a cute boy!” And basically talking to each other like they were in their own living room, so it made the movie more difficult to concentrate on.
Funny! Sarahnsh, we’re going to have to make you an Honorary Cranky Guy, or is it Cranky Gal?
—Bret
I think it willl be a “wait for the MKV” version for me. Am I getting old or are fewer movies appealing to me?
Great dynamic. I appreciate the depth of insight without overplaying it either way–feel like it is still worth seeing and that I can make up my own mind…
Good dissection of the movie. The Sorkin/Zaillian script was top-notch, though I agree: the daughter’s scenes were weak. It didn’t help that they had the daughter in 2002 sing a song to her father from an album that wasn’t released until 2008. Other than that, I’d give the movie a home run with 2 RBI’s.
Thanks for the review! I do like your guys’ format of post.
Thanks! We’ll check out your blog, too. —Bruce
GREAT Movie. I agree with “realanonymousgirl2011″ your blog format is really interesting. It’s as if you guys are hosting a radio talk show in ever blog post which makes it more relatable. I will definitely continuing reading your blog. I will disagree with Bret though. I think this movie was a home run and one of the best baseball movies I have seen. Check out my review on my blog!
http://schillingsbloodysock.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/moneyball-arguably-the-best-sports-movie-of-all-time/
Thanks for the kind words. We’ll check out your blog! —Bruce
Just saw it, and gotta agree with Bret on this one. Bruce, will you at least concede that the movie was a good twenty minutes longer than it should have been?
I found the movie boring. I am a sports fan and a movie fan. But my main problem is this kind of movie is better as an ESPN 30-30 doc than a movie. Billy Beane was one damn boring character. Just because Hill is serious, this is his best role???? Everyone was acting in such a restrained manner and the tone of the movie was so serious. Look, baseball has always been looking at numbers to assess players. Moneyball was a different way of looking at it. It was not revolutionary in the sense that it chose to use stats. THey just chose a different set of criteria and had a good formula for the it. That’s not enough to make such a compelling movie when you got a dull character like Beane.